How deep can you get?
With all the talk about whether anime is deep or just entraining, I think I sound sound a warning about false or pseudo depth, which is what a lot of series out there have. How deep you think Eva is really depends on how deep you want to get into the psyche of Anno Hideaki. Yes, there’s a lot of Judeo-Christian references there, but wasn’t a lot of that added to the surface to make the work more mysterious and seem more profound than just the genre conventions of giant robots? And once Eva pioneered that, you get a mob of shows, like RahXephon, that will have similar elements as a matter of course. You can really get into the deep references and presumed philosophy behind a lot of shows and discover that there’s a lot of style but maybe not so much substance for your efforts. Maybe its easier to just accept that stuff as an added part of a genre’s atmosphere and not dwell on it all too much? The pace of the anime industry is such that, if you are into a lot of anime and you spend too much time dissecting one series, you discover it’s already been replaced by a host of new ones, many copying elements of what you’ve seen before anyway.
So many anime seem designed to create the illusion of depth. Parody shows, like Hayate, or shows geared towards otaku, like Lucky Star (which is a masterpiece of its kind, of course!) have a depth of references to other things, and that’s clearly “entertainment”. Then there’s something like Haruhi, which is a good show, but whose out-of-order airing sequence seems like a device just to give fans something to obsess about. I like anime like Boogiepop and (of course) Higusrashi, but even I sometimes balk at the depth of analysis required to fully dive into all the levels of mystery and alternate realities and differences between game and anime and manga. But do you really need to follow every convolution of an overly complicated storyline? The best series should not require all that to get the basic message. In Higurashi, the fundamental dilemma that the characters are in and the importance of their friendship are the most important things to “get”.
This is not to say a lot of anime out there isn’t “deep” in one way or another, from Honey & Clover to GitS to Grave of the Fireflies, but we should also have a sense of true depth (whatever that means…) as opposed to the illusion of depth, which is often nothing more than a marketing ploy or a stylistic device in a genre bag of tricks. Of course, if someone is obsessed with a particular series they may not want to see it that way and you’d be courting trouble if you point it out! There could also be a difference between those who’ve seen more and those for whom certain types of series are really new.
This post is a late follower of the bandwagon that’s already been here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and (very amusingly, in a troll-like way) here (I’m glad there was a topic that could draw lk out of seclusion!)
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<3
You’re a brave man for being willing to call out Evangelion fanboys, at least 100% of whom would probably rabidly devour your post for insinuating that Eva is anything less than a work of pure genius. :P
Of course, I think that in itself is somewhat emblematic of the way many anime fans, in some kind of bid for acceptance of their hobby, try to justify it by painting it as highly cultured and intellectual. Certainly, as you pointed out, there are movies and shows that have depth and that tackle significant issues, but that’s present in every medium. I think too often hardcore anime fans take shows that are meant as simple entertainment and try to portray them as deeper than they are.
Any teacher will tell you that entertainment is an excellent vehicle for presenting difficult or weighty topics and helping to make them interesting and relevant, so certainly it’s not impossible for the two to co-exist. In the end, though, the majority of these shows are designed as simple entertainment, and to try and present them as otherwise definitely seems a bit silly.
Also, on an unrelated note, I lol’d at the caption on that picture.
Also, Higurashi and Ghost in the Shell both SUCK!
Orion >> I agree. Anime is an example of popular culture, like any other.
lk >> lol. At least you didn’t call me a whore. ^_^
Well you wrote about the topic, so actually, yeah, you are a whore.
I agree with many of your points, but some of your examples strike me as shaky, to say the least. You might want to rethink religious symbolism in Eva, for example. Like a lot of things in the show, the Judeo-Cabbalistic-Christian iconography in Eva can be interpreted in multiple ways. You mention one of them: It looks cool. And in Japan, especially, I assume it adds to an air of exotic mystery.
Looking for deeper meanings, you could assign traditional theological significance to the crosses, fig leaves and whatnot: they’re symbols of fall from grace, sacrifice and redemption, themes that are critical to story and character development in Eva.
Beyond symbolic value derived from a traditional interpretation (and I think more importantly for making sense of the show) the religious icons in Eva are there because their potency derives from deep connections between symbol, symbolized concept, and psychology. The symbols are not so much important because of their connections to religion, but because of what their power says about the basic workings of the human mind.
These sorts of interpretations are not mutually exclusive; it isn’t the case that one is right and the others are wrong. But, some of them are more illuminating than others, and to be blunt, your interpretation is the least interesting of the three I list.
Now, about the episode order in Haruhi… :)
Matt >> I almost forgot that you were one of those Evangelion fanboys that Orion mentioned :)
lk >> What was it that Owen S. wrote? Ah yes, “Also, lolikit, blow me.” lol
As deep as your penis can go?
Boogiepop Phantom is an anime that completely slipped my mind when thinking about this topic. There’s a buttload to be said using that as the sole example… damn. Thanks for reminding me how much I adore that series, though. I might go and rewatch it now.