There’s this Live Journal Post attacking JPinano’s latest anime preview. In this post the author writes:
…by the way, can we Americans stop calling them mangaka and just call them fricking artists? It’s like using seiyuu when talking about voice actors. There is no need to use the Japanese word as there are perfect English equivalents for them. (Unlike, for example, dakara, which has a lot of different meanings, or the German bitte which can be used all over the place.) It reeks of pretension and it makes your writing harder for the non-anointed to understand.
This actually makes me want to start ranting. First of all, this stuff is on the “fricking” internet, so if you don’t understand these words from context you can LOOK IT UP ONLINE. Next, the idea of calling a mangaka an artist is no different than, say, referring to a painter, sculptor, illustrator, composer or any other type of artist by a more specific term. I suppose you could just type out “Japanese-comic-book-artist” all the time, but why bother when there’s a SPECIFIC TERM FOR IT???
And I don’t think that “voice actor” is actually a good equivalent to seiyuu. The position of the seiyuu in the Japanese entrainment industry has NOTHING IN THE U.S. THAT EXACTLY MATCHES IT. The unique training and specialization of the seiyuu, their varied work, voicing not just anime but games and visual novels, and the celebrity status of the top seiyuu, has NO AMERICAN COGNATE. And seiyuu are followed by a kind of fandom and broader attention that US voice actors probably wish they could get! The same logic can be used for mangaka: their place in Japanese publishing and the status they hold among their Japanese followers is quite different from that of American comic book artists, even those that like to think of themselves as “manga-artists” LOL.
But let’s go by this LJ guy’s logic for a moment. If we do that, then why be pretentious and use such terms as samurai, ninja and geisha? Samurai are kind of like knights in the West, and Ninja are like, I don’t know, spies or assassins (wikipedia says a ninja is “a warrior specially trained in a variety of unorthodox arts of war.”) So, Rurouni Kenshin is a wandering Knight! But Samurai are not exact matches for knights, they are a military class. There can be baby samurai! And should Naruto boldly declare, “I’m gonna be the best warrior specially trained in a variety of unorthodox arts of war!” Imaging Naruto comes rushing up to save his comrades, shouting, “Look out, there’s still another warrior specially trained in a variety of unorthodox arts of war hiding over there!!”
And geisha, with all of the historical and cultural meanings they carry with them, simply don’t exist in western culture. Actually, wikipedia says that, “the most direct translation of geisha into English would be ‘artist’ or ‘performing artist.’” So let’s change a famous book/movie title to Memoirs of a Performing Artist!!! Yeah, that will be very unpretentious and will help to make the subject of the movie waaay clearer, right?
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ROFLMAO I had to contain myself from bursting out in laughter
Basically. I mean I use the term seiyuu and japanese voice actor interchangeably. It’s like saying rice-flour based flavored sweets baked in small, gooey balls rather than dango. I mean, clearly you are a weeaboo up to no good DS.
Lol ANGRY BOLD LETTERS. But you have a good point there, words get romanized and bleed into other languages all the time.
I fixed this sentence for you. Now this sounds like something Naruto (or perhaps we should call him “John”) would say.
I’m not really with you on this one – I wouldn’t exactly say that using those terms is precisely elitist, but it does strike me as a case of using Japanese terms just for the sake of using Japanese terms (and, dare I say it, is very weeaboo-esque).
I mean, I guess it’s fine when you are certain that your audience is made up 100% of other anime fanboys, but otherwise it’s just being needlessly obtuse and confusing. Sure, you could look these terms up on the internet, but that’s more likely just to dissuade someone from reading what you’ve written. If you’re fine with that, then fine, but it just seems needless exclusive to me, and frankly I don’t see how calling a mangaka an Artist, or a Seiyuu a voice actor (particularly when, unlike the Samurai/Knight example, that ones a literal translation of the characters used) is particularly insulting or belittling what they do. Just because they have more of a following doesn’t particularly mean they need a different title.
But, whatever. I know what you’re talking about regardless, so it’s not like it bugs me too much – it just seems a little hypocritical for someone who makes weeaboo jokes to make this kind of counter-argument.
First: nice post. Second: some people don’t know the difference between a weaboo and someone with more than a scrap of knowledge about the language and culture who is trying to be factually accurate. Great examples there…I’m sure this old chestnut has cropped up before but you made me lol nonetheless.
Some terms simply don’t have terms in other languages – we have French and German phrases that are used in everyday conversation to get specific ideas across, so why not other languages too? Hell, I guess I’m an elitist because I use hiragana in my blog title, but you know what? There’s no English equivalent for it that I found to be satisfactory.
Of course, I’m not so much elitist as merely more awesome than everyone else… :P
Yes . . . and no. I don’t use ‘seiyuu’ because, while I appreciate that it indicates a different position within a somewhat different industry to that of a ‘voice actor’
in the U.S.(wait, how did the entire world suddenly become reduced to Japan and the United States? and since when was ‘American’ a language that could have cognate words?), I have absolutely no idea what a seiyuu’s (or shouldn’t I be shoving an English possessive clitic on a foreign word? is this subtle Englishing actually crypto-imperialism now?) position is. Indeed, I’m not sure I’m really interested: I write about anime, not Japan. ‘Voice actor’ is a good enough approximation.It’s a choice, case-by-case as each word comes up. Which side you fall on says certain things about your engagement with Japan, and what you expect from your readers.
Your counter-rant is an overcorrection.
I use seiyuu, voice actor, CV, VA blablabla whatever feels right at the time. But I’m proud of being a pretentious, anointed elitist anyhow.
Love that Naruto declaration, lmao xD
@Hinano: Oh my… as long as you don’t cause yourself more pain from laughing! ^^;
@omo: Here’s a new song, then: “rice-flour based flavored sweets baked in small, gooey balls; rice-flour based flavored sweets baked in small, gooey balls; rice-flour based flavored sweets baked in small, gooey balls; rice-flour based flavored sweets baked in small, gooey balls big family la la.
@Omisyth: Well, if Ninja and Geisha and Samurai are now words in English, why not Seiyuu and Mangaka.
@Kabitzin: not fixed enough, how about: “Look out, there’s still another warrior specially trained in a variety of unorthodox arts of war hiding over there, colloquial verb ending that makes (me) the speaker sound uncultured, brusque, and trying to seem tougher (or maybe just more childish) than they I really am!”
@DiGiKerot: but aren’t there people out there who are not sure what anime and manga mean either? Should we always say Japanese animation and Japanese comic books/graphic novels for them? It’s not that far of a step from anime and manga to say mangaka or seiyuu. If you were studying medieval Japanese, for instance, you’d have to use terms like daimyo for instance.
@Martin: only the dangos are more awesome :)
@IKnight: Actually, I tend to use “voice actor” and “manga artist” myself, but I don’t think its wrong to use seiyuu and mangaka.
@j1m0ne: seiyuu say me!
Stop. Hammer time.
Bookmarked. Totally talking about this on this week’s Anime 3000 Podcast.
Some people really need to learn to start using Google >_>
“(Unlike, for example, dakara, which has a lot of different meanings, or the German bitte which can be used all over the place.)”
Huh? So it’s not ok to use seiyuu, but “dakara” is ok? Dakara, I’m saying that his logic is perfectly flawed, dakara I’m rather confused dakara.
I will henceforth only refer to Nuhroodo as a warrior specially trained in a variety of unorthodox arts of war.
Yous is so SUGOI DS! But don’t get too elitist, we don’t want your site to be okasareta because of the weeaboo name which can be translated to “it’s all right.”
So, would a native Japanese refer to Laura Bailey as a seiyuu, or a boisu akuturesu?
It’s all about where you draw the line, isn’t it?
Anime: Japanese Animation
Manga: Japanese Comic
— THIS FAR AND NO FARTHER —
Mangaka: Japanese Comic Artist
Seiyuu: Pretentious when used by an English speaker to mean Japanese Voice Actor
Loanwords are useful when they more accurately describe something than any existing equivalent in the native language. But at the same time, using loanwords will be seen as pretentious if you’re ahead of the curve (whereas not using the loanwords once they’re accepted makes you look out-of-date). So either these words are on the way to more mainstream usage, or they’re not, I guess. But the line is always moving.
Psh…same shit different smell.
Elitists are all fucktards, especially the metal ones.